DVD Manufacturing Standards

[otakudes]

I'd like to know if anime DVDs are more prone to break/crack versus DVDs in general? I rent anime DVDs by mail and they arrive in plain paper envelopes. Many of these DVDs arrived cracked (picture). Ninety-nine % of my rentals are anime. Are anime DVDs manufactured by the same industry standards?

[Soluzar]

It's probably due to rough treatment during shipping. If I recall correctly, they ship them in just a thin card sleeve, instead of in a keepcase or other hard package.

There really isn't an industry standard. There's a minimum standard, but some companies go above and beyond. I remember that AnimeEigo's discs always felt thicker and heavier than most.

[Quarkboy]

The answer is probably yes, anime DVDs are manufactured crappier than your usual hollywood dvd. The reason is simply one of scale. Anime disc print runs are normally around 10,000 or even less, your typical hollywood movie is more like 1,000,000 or more. Basically anime companies farm discs out to the cheapest replicators they can find (with a few exceptions like the previously mentioned animeeigo and BV USA which prints their discs in Japan at the same places they make the R2 discs), so it wouldn't surprise me if they are crappier quality than your typical mainstream movie in general.

But it's simply because anime is a niche... I'm sure the same thing is true for other niche DVDs like campy horror or tokusatsu or opera (are there any opera DVDs?)...

Another possibility with getting cracked discs is that the people who rent anime are more likely to be kids and teenagers, so they probably treat the rented discs like crap because they are immature idiots. So anime rentals probably get more wear and tear than movies aimed at a more adult audience.

[John]

As far as I know, the physical quality of the plastic discs that movies are recorded onto is consistent between the anime industry and Hollywood movie industry. DVDs are DVDs. There aren't "extra-durable" DVDs or "cheap plastic" DVDs.

The reason why rental DVDs often get broken has nothing to do with the quality of the DVD disc materials. It's explained by expenses. Due to postal rates, mailing a DVD disc via a corporate mailing account is relatively inexpensive. Adding a hard plastic case, or a piece of reinforcing cardboard literally more than triples mailing costs. Through a corporate mailing account, envelopes with a certain degree of rigidity cost more to mail. Envelopes over a certain weight get bumped up into a significantly more expensive category of mail. Envelopes of a certain thickness get automatically bumped up to a more expensive category of mail.

If a company has to cover the cost of mailing a disc to and from a customer, the disc alone may cost 30 or 40 cents to mail each way. Adding just a mere piece of reinforcing cardboard may increase the postage cost to a dollar each way. Adding up that additional expense for each of thousands of mailings can be enough to put a mail rental company out of business.

For many mail rental companies, it's significantly cheaper to absorb the cost of discs broken or damaged in transit than pay the increased postage of sending discs in durable envelopes.

[otakudes]

Thanks for your replies. John, your articles have really been helpful whenever I'm researching anime. Keep up the good work!

[Jon]

Originally Posted by John

DVDs are DVDs. There aren't "extra-durable" DVDs or "cheap plastic" DVDs.

Not true, depending on where its manufactured and by what company, the quality of the disc varies. Here's a good guide:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

[Bradster]

Originally Posted by Jon

Not true, depending on where its manufactured and by what company, the quality of the disc varies. Here's a good guide:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

This guide covers consumer writable media, not whatever is used by the industry.

As far as Otakudes' image, that's the first one I've seen that's had a piece completely broken off like that, as opposed to a radial crack.

[John]

Originally Posted by Jon

Not true, depending on where its manufactured and by what company, the quality of the disc varies. Here's a good guide:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

This is about recording quality - the integrity of the recording surface on different brands of DVDs. That's not the same as discussing the quality, rigidity, and thickness of the plastic that the disc is made from. Certainly cheap Chinese discs may not record data as consistently or reliably as professional grade media, but the plastic the discs are made out of is the same.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by John

This is about recording quality - the integrity of the recording surface on different brands of DVDs. That's not the same as discussing the quality, rigidity, and thickness of the plastic that the disc is made from. Certainly cheap Chinese discs may not record data as consistently or reliably as professional grade media, but the plastic the discs are made out of is the same.

do you know that as a fact? There has got to be more than one supplier of the plastic discs that get pressed together to make DVDs out there, and they have different levels of quality control. Things like impurities or manufacturing standards could definitely effect the long term durability of discs. Where'd the plastic come from? For Chinese manufactured discs I bet the plastic is different than US made discs.

I once saw a study (for CDs, but, still) that tested the maximum angular velocity they could take before exploding. It seemed that not only the cheaper the media, the worse the recordig quality, but the cheaper the media, the lower the maximum spinning the disc could take before exploding.

[Soluzar]

More importantly, that link is about recordable media. It's just not relevant in this instance. I utterly refute the assertion that all discs are made from the same kind of plastic though. Just look through your collection, if you will.

[John]

I will admit that I don't have knowledge that there aren't variations in the quality of plastic used to manufacture DVD media. I must admit that there is a very strong possibility that different manufacturers may use slightly different percentages of ingredients in the plastic used to manufacture discs. However, I have serious doubts that such small variations can have more than a miniscule impact on a DVD's physical durability. I think that if a DVD is likely to get cracked or crushed by a postal sorting machine, the constitution of its plastic, or one extra layer of varnish is not going to be enough to protect it from harm.

I speak from observation when saying that I see how many, and what variety of broken DVDs RentAnime gets back in the mail. I don't see any sign that certain types of DVDs are more prone to breakage than others in practical, real world circumstances.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by John

I speak from observation when saying that I see how many, and what variety of broken DVDs RentAnime gets back in the mail. I don't see any sign that certain types of DVDs are more prone to breakage than others in practical, real world circumstances.

Then again, isn't your sample flawed? Rentanime only rents ANIME. To really compare you'd need to see whether there was a difference with mainstream DVDs like hollywood movies, etc.

Another possibility for the OP however, is that for a service like netflix, they probably purchase relatively few discs of anime compared to other more mainstream DVDs. I bet that those few anime DVDs get a higher rate of circulation and lower rate of replacement than some of the more popular DVDs, so it might be a case where the anime DVDs get worn out faster and replaced slower in the service.

[otakudes]

Soluzar, I see your point. I pulled out some of my DVDs and the edges looked different. Some edges looked thin while others looked thick. Also, the thin looking DVDs had a narrow tapered edge and were slightly bigger (by a 1 mm). The thick looking DVDs had a flat edge. My guess is this difference is in the edge only. I did some research and found that all CDs, DVDs, HD DVDs, and Blu-Rays are 1.2 mm thick.

I'm in support of John's explanation. DVDs are DVDs. All DVDs are made of polycarbonate (PC) plastic, known for its high strength and optical qualities. One member pointed out there are different manufacturers. That's true. PCs are marketed under different brand names such as Makrolon and Lexan but the difference is like comparing generic and brand name drugs: Aspirin is still aspirin. DVD manufacturers don't sell their product on strength: Polycarbonate strength is a given. It's even used for military aircraft such as the F-22 Raptor. Instead, manufacturers like Makrolon sell their product on optical quality where DVDs are concerned.

I've tried searching for DVD recalls concerning cracked DVDs and came up empty-handed. I searched for anime DVD recalls. Some of them were for issues such as encoding. The majority involved missing subtitles or audio tracks. I think John did an excellent post-mortem on my DVD rental: Death by shipping expenses. Wear and tear does play its part too as one member suggests. I came across several studies researching PC fatigue. Physical stress (i.e bending) and extreme temperatures cause PC to crack. DVD rental shipping such as in this example subjects DVDs to increased fatigue and subsequent cracks.

References for those interested:

What are the sizes and capacities of DVD?
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.3

Storing Data on a DVD
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/dvd2.htm

DVDs In Detail
http://www.cinram.com/dvd/tech/dvdindetail.pdf

A Guide to Polycarbonates
http://www.ptsllc.com/polcarb_intro.htm

Polycarbonate Brand Names
http://www.ptsllc.com/poly_reference.htm

Polycarbonate Plastic
http://www.wilsonart.com/design/stat...p?articleid=67

Encyclopedia of optical engineering By Ronald G. Driggers
http://tinyurl.com/389829

Strength of damaged polycarbonate after fatigue
http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/97163814&tab=details

[otakudes]

I thought I should share this.

Reply from AnimEigo:

"I can't speak for any other anime companies, but can assure you that AnimEigo uses the same authoring processes as most big Hollywood productions, Sony DADC, thus the physical specifications should differ in no way from other DVDs. I was under the impression that every other company we've spoken to uses Sony as well."

Aaron Cavazos
DVD Producer
AnimEigo, Inc.

[HSaabedra]

Originally Posted by otakudes

I thought I should share this.

Reply from AnimEigo:

"I can't speak for any other anime companies, but can assure you that AnimEigo uses the same authoring processes as most big Hollywood productions, Sony DADC, thus the physical specifications should differ in no way from other DVDs. I was under the impression that every other company we've spoken to uses Sony as well."

Aaron Cavazos
DVD Producer
AnimEigo, Inc.

AnimEigo might be the exception to the rule, as most other licensors farm out to replicators other than Sony DADC, and end up with a higher percentage of glitch discs compared to the industry average.