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Old March 25th, 2008, 05:38 AM   #1
Leader Desslock
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Fair's fair...

This is going to be a variant of my infamous "why is [x] banned" threads. I don't intend to ask why Rain has been banned. I saw the thread. I understand the decision. I would hope it's just a time out, and not a permaban, and I'll leave it at that.

Was the thread in bad taste? You bet. Was the thread deserving of a temp ban? Possibly. Was the thread funny? Lord, yes, in a horribly inappropriate way.

But was the thread itself inappropriate? I really don't think so.

I'm not going to ask why Rain was banned. I'm going to ask you why someone else has not been given a comparable time out, and the person I'm gonna ask you about isn't Prons. No, I'd like to suggest that the person who needs to receive comparable disciplinary action is none other than the star of the deleted thread: Starmorpher / Lord K / Lord T / Lord AlmightyCantHeJustPickANameAndStickWithI t.

Why? Flamebaiting. Yes, the thread that outed him for pedophilic ***hattery was burning with flames, but those were partly the flames of justice, and they were a long time in coming.

LT is a very publicly emo person. I'm not insulting or flamebaiting him when I say that, because HE says it every chance he gets. I have lost track of the number of times I've told him to just Let Starmorpher Go. Here's the most recent time. If he changed his username to NotStarmorpher, then changed his avatar to his old Starmorpher avatar with a circle and slash through it, then he would not be any more blatant about it.

That, to my mind, is extended flamebait. It's very mild in small doses, but when taken over the number of years we've had to listen to him natter on and on about how much he's changed since his Starmorpher days (answer: not at all), then the cumulative effect makes even the most reasonable person's hand itch for a burning torch.

That's part one. Part two is the fact that he made a very public display of AC's most recent bit of forum drama. And when you make a highly visible display of someone else's downfall - in which you ultimately had a hand - then you have to expect that karma's gonna catch up to you. For LT to get outed publicly might have been in bad taste, but I can't say it wasn't appropriate.

If it proves to be the case that LT logged on with someone kid's account and got her banned, I can't exactly call that good taste either, you know?

Yes, we all know that the proper way to handle the situation would have been to forward the chat logs to AN moderation staff, so that they could view the ***hattery for themselves and take private action. But I don't think I'm alone in saying that resolving the situation quietly would not have been nearly as just, given the circumstances.

Besides, I would think that airing the matter publicly would be considered something of a public service. "See kids, this is why you don't talk to strangers or give out your account passwords to folks on the internets". What better PSA can you have than that? Finish it with an "And now you know...", and you'll be all set.


So anyway - I'm not going to question Rain's ban. Not at all. But I would highly question the matter if her ban isn't followed by comparable (if not stronger) disciplinary action against a certain peacock who begat this forum drama, then publicly preened his feathers afterward.

If nothing else, can we make use of the word 'Starmorpher' a bannable offense? The situation will resolve itself within a day if you do, 'cause he can't go that long without reminding people.
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No, I won't condemn anyone for putting ketchup on a hot dog. This is the land of the free. And if someone wants to put ketchup on a hot dog and actually eat the awful thing, that is their right...
Sure, it would be disgusting and perverted, and they would be shaming themselves and their loved ones. But under our system of government, it is their right to be barbarians.

~Mike Royko

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Old March 25th, 2008, 06:37 AM   #2
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Rain: 7 day temp-ban. That's all I will say at this point this early in the week.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 06:42 AM   #3
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^ I appreciate the information.
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No, I won't condemn anyone for putting ketchup on a hot dog. This is the land of the free. And if someone wants to put ketchup on a hot dog and actually eat the awful thing, that is their right...
Sure, it would be disgusting and perverted, and they would be shaming themselves and their loved ones. But under our system of government, it is their right to be barbarians.

~Mike Royko
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Old March 25th, 2008, 07:02 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Leader Desslock View Post
Wh0y? Flamebaiting. Yes, the thread that outed him for pedophilic ***hattery was burning with flames, but those were partly the flames of justice, and they were a long time in coming.
It's so very hard to forge a chat log, don't you think? I'm not even remotely prepared to make a judgement on his behaviour on the basis of a plain text log which doesn't prove any such conversations took place. I take it you do remember the way Alice glomped on to Kuroishi? Isn't it possible this is... sour grapes born from rejection, or something?

Quote:
That, to my mind, is extended flamebait. It's very mild in small doses, but when taken over the number of years we've had to listen to him natter on and on about how much he's changed since his Starmorpher days (answer: not at all), then the cumulative effect makes even the most reasonable person's hand itch for a burning torch.
You don't think you're being even the least bit unfair? Even I, who always said "Nah, Kuroishi is alright" can say that I believe he's changed substantially since I first encountered him. He's still prone to occasional behaviour likely to irritate and offend the forum, but who really isn't?

Quote:
That's part one. Part two is the fact that he made a very public display of AC's most recent bit of forum drama. And when you make a highly visible display of someone else's downfall - in which you ultimately had a hand - then you have to expect that karma's gonna catch up to you. For LT to get outed publicly might have been in bad taste, but I can't say it wasn't appropriate.

If it proves to be the case that LT logged on with someone kid's account and got her banned, I can't exactly call that good taste either, you know?
Alice Catherine got banned as much for her history as for anything that was posted using her account. Am I particularly pleased that Alice has gone? No. Do I believe she had it coming? Yes.

Also... it is so hard to forge a chatlog. It beggars belief that you automatically damn Kuroishi for this when you take the word of MissKnowItAll/AlissTiss/AliceCatherine/Can'tSheJustPickAnAgeAndStickWithIt as some kind of gold standard of truth.

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If nothing else, can we make use of the word 'Starmorpher' a bannable offense? The situation will resolve itself within a day if you do, 'cause he can't go that long without reminding people.
I'll admit that I do see this as a fault in the lad, just not one sufficient to ban him. It's not as though other members refrain from poking him about it. I'm looking at you, Nakey.

Last edited by Soluzar; March 25th, 2008 at 07:06 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 07:14 AM   #5
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It's so very hard to forge a chat log, don't you think?
Not at all. But I have to judge the veracity of that chat log with the behaviour I saw posted in threads on AN. And I can honestly say that the number of times I saw LT/AC making innuendoes at one another makes me believe that AC's account of events has some truth to it. Enough to make it worth investigating, anyway.

If AC's account was accessed from LT's normal machine, it should be easy enough to track, if logs are kept of such things. They should show that AC's account was accessed from an IP address that looks much more like LT's did around the same time.

If that proves to be the case, I would consider that sufficient evidence for action. If the logs show that AC's account was only accessed from her normal IP range and LT was posting on quite a different IP range at the time, that would be sufficient evidence to all AC's story into question. Simple enough. I prefer to let facts decide the matter.

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You don't think you're being even the least bit unfair?
Not particularly. I've deleted the PMs I've sent him, encouraging him to just Let Starmorpher Go. When PM's failed to work, I publicly ranted to him in several threads (at length on one other occasion) about the matter.

Has he gotten better? You know, I ignored him as Starmorpher, so I can't say I can tell for sure. But I've recently seen him sliding back into a pattern I'd call "worse".

I honestly don't have anything against him as a forum member, but every time I see him post the word "Starmorpher", I facepalm and wonder why the guy just can't let it go.

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Alice Catherine got banned as much for her history as for anything that was posted using her account. Am I particularly pleased that Alice has gone? No. Do I believe she had it coming? Yes.
I agree completely here. Well, I'm indifferent that shes gone, but the decrease in loli comments has been nice.

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Originally Posted by Soluzar View Post
I'll admit that I do see this as a fault in the lad, just not one sufficient to ban him.
Well, if having multiple accounts is a bannable offense, I have to imagine using someone else's account is equally worthy of a time out. I'm not talking permaban, but something equal to those who were banned because of it seems appropriate.
__________________
No, I won't condemn anyone for putting ketchup on a hot dog. This is the land of the free. And if someone wants to put ketchup on a hot dog and actually eat the awful thing, that is their right...
Sure, it would be disgusting and perverted, and they would be shaming themselves and their loved ones. But under our system of government, it is their right to be barbarians.

~Mike Royko

Last edited by Leader Desslock; March 25th, 2008 at 07:17 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 07:19 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Leader Desslock View Post
Well, if having multiple accounts is a bannable offense, I have to imagine using someone else's account is equally worthy of a time out.
Perhaps you're right, but I dispute that there's any real reason to believe it could have happened. The only suggestion that it may have comes from a person with no particular record for telling the truth, and every reason to be angry and bitter.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 07:44 AM   #7
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Interesting... Desslock seemed to have contradicted himself. He insists on the "Let Starmorpher Go" action, yet he's the one who brought Starmorpher up in this thread. But that's not what I want to talk about.

For one, I had never intended to use my past self as simple flamebait. I rarely even mention it anymore unless somebody else brings it up. All I've been trying to do on such a rare occasion was make a comparison between You-Know-Who and myself; apparently I failed hard.

As for the allegations stated in Rain's thread, I can assure you they're false. Not once did AC give me her password for me to hijack it; and believe me, if that was me sock-puppeting Alice all along, you'd already have known about it. I can also say with confidence that every single quote from Alice on that site is a complete fabrication; either that or AC, or at least someone ironically posing as AC, made these false allegations out of spite or for their own enjoyment. My comments, however, are indeed real, albeit twisted beyond repair.

And yes, I quite agree that Starmorpher should be put to death, for my own sake and for the rest of the forum. But, as was shown in yesterday's thread, there are still many others who refuse to forget. If I had ever mentioned it myself, it was only as a reminder that I'm no longer that person and that it should be dropped immediately. But, if there's anyone who believes I should be downright banned for calmly speaking out or for a chatlog that clearly can't be proven true... then those people have lost their ways.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 07:55 AM   #8
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But, if there's anyone who believes I should be downright banned for calmly speaking out or for a chatlog that clearly can't be proven true... then those people have lost their ways.
Indeed it could be proven to be false through the AdminCP. I know my vBulletin Admin-fu pretty well, and it's possible to compare the IP addresses from which you've logged on to the IP addresses from which AC has logged on.

That would settle the matter once and for all. It's equally possible to compare said lists to a listing of open proxies. The remote possibility does exist that such an action would bear out these allegations, but I don't find them to be credible in the first place.

AC... if you're reading this, please know I don't have any particular grudge against you due to your posts on the forum. I just don't like baseless allegations all that much. I know Kuro always went along with the joke of you two being somehow romantically linked, but I know the difference between a joke and reality.

Last edited by Soluzar; March 25th, 2008 at 07:57 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 08:07 AM   #9
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Indeed it could be proven to be false through the AdminCP. I know my vBulletin Admin-fu pretty well, and it's possible to compare the IP addresses from which you've logged on to the IP addresses from which AC has logged on.
Not only that, but since AN knows the precise time and date the posts she's alleging she didn't make were made, AN should be able to narrow down the search quite easily.

That's if such data is kept. If not, then... well, SOL.

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The remote possibility does exist that such an action would bear out these allegations, but I don't find them to be credible in the first place.
But remember - we're also talking about a girl with technical abilities normally associated with the Amish or certain varieties of peach pit. This was the girl who couldn't figure out why she couldn't convert a file by changing the file extension to something she knew her program could read.

An IM log would be simple for your or I (or the more clever varieties of peach) to forge. AC would have to master the intricacies of Notepad to do it. That's a big leap for her, technically.
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No, I won't condemn anyone for putting ketchup on a hot dog. This is the land of the free. And if someone wants to put ketchup on a hot dog and actually eat the awful thing, that is their right...
Sure, it would be disgusting and perverted, and they would be shaming themselves and their loved ones. But under our system of government, it is their right to be barbarians.

~Mike Royko
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Old March 25th, 2008, 08:19 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Leader Desslock View Post
Not only that, but since AN knows the precise time and date the posts she's alleging she didn't make were made, AN should be able to narrow down the search quite easily.

That's if such data is kept. If not, then... well, SOL.
LOG!

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No, because Rain did exactly what got me banned as MissKnowItAll. So why isn't she banned? Or Prons?
Once again, it couldn't have been me. Not only did I not know (and still don't know) what happened between Rain and AC at the time of this post, but I also wasn't aware there was even such a conflict to begin with.

Although I now find it more likely that the chatlog is indeed authentic on both sides, but that still doesn't make these allegations true.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 08:21 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Leader Desslock View Post
Not only that, but since AN knows the precise time and date the posts she's alleging she didn't make were made, AN should be able to narrow down the search quite easily.

That's if such data is kept. If not, then... well, SOL.
Well... I've not been a forum admin for some considerable time now, but the last time I had access to the AdminCP it kept a record of what IP address was used by a member on any given day they logged in. I'm pretty sure the list is truncated to the most recent, but that really shouldn't be an issue.

Quote:
But remember - we're also talking about a girl with technical abilities normally associated with the Amish or certain varieties of peach pit. This was the girl who couldn't figure out why she couldn't convert a file by changing the file extension to something she knew her program could read.

An IM log would be simple for your or I (or the more clever varieties of peach) to forge. AC would have to master the intricacies of Notepad to do it. That's a big leap for her, technically.
I would be inclined to agree with you, except that if you read Mel's blog, there is exactly one quote that puts Kuro in a compromising position, and that is the one in which was typed by AC while presumably on AIM to Mel.

In other words, she could basically type what she wanted.

The other direct quotes from Kuro tend to bear out the idea that she was infatuated and that he wasn't interested. I'm sure that AC has some rather spicy allegations to make, but it's all just hot air.

She wouldn't even need to edit a chatlog.

Read the blog page with a critical eye, Desslock. I'm begging you.

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Although I now find it more likely that the chatlog is indeed authentic on both sides, but that still doesn't make these allegations true.
The interesting thing is that now I read it for the third time there's not actually anything incriminating in there... I'd go so far as to say it was a bonehead move on your part to allow a young teenage girl to develop an emotional attachment to you, but there's no evidence or even suggestion that you took advantage of that, except in those statements made by AC after the fact, which... I dunno, why exactly would I have trouble believing those? You tell me.

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Old March 25th, 2008, 08:36 AM   #12
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Read the blog page with a critical eye, Desslock. I'm begging you.
I have. I'm not believing it without question, but I think there's sufficient cause to look into the matter. If the allegations prove unfounded, then that's a good thing.

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I rarely even mention it anymore unless somebody else brings it up. All I've been trying to do on such a rare occasion was make a comparison between You-Know-Who and myself; apparently I failed hard.
Yes, apparently.

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And yes, I quite agree that Starmorpher should be put to death, for my own sake and for the rest of the forum. But, as was shown in yesterday's thread, there are still many others who refuse to forget.
That's because you won't let us. We're trying.

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If I had ever mentioned it myself, it was only as a reminder that I'm no longer that person...
I call bull on that. I've told you several times that if you would just stop reminding people, nobody would remember.

Sorry I missed the other half dozen examples in the search, as well as the several dozens of entries in the Archive, but I've hit my threshhold. Don't bother playing the "gosh, I hardly mention it" card on this one.
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No, I won't condemn anyone for putting ketchup on a hot dog. This is the land of the free. And if someone wants to put ketchup on a hot dog and actually eat the awful thing, that is their right...
Sure, it would be disgusting and perverted, and they would be shaming themselves and their loved ones. But under our system of government, it is their right to be barbarians.

~Mike Royko

Last edited by Leader Desslock; March 25th, 2008 at 08:39 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 08:39 AM   #13
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All I know is this.

I've known Alice for a long time and she's actually pretty okay. Sure she uses anyone who will listen as a documentary crew and tells them every aspect of her life, but it's not like she's a bad person or anything. In all the time I've known her, she never really made anything up or exadgerated anything. She usually tells me everything that happens ever. Sure, she could have made it up. But I really doubt it. Alice has never been the type of person to be capable of hatching complex revenge plots, remember her "returns" to AnimeNation? If she couldn't do something simple like that, how could she have faked an elaborate cyber sex story?

The reason I wanted to post the thread is because I thought it was pretty crappy that LT could just ban Alice, and she'd still be goo-goo over him and he could just talk **** about her behind her back (which he did a grand total of five times since her banning). There's two sides to this story, and Rain and I let everyone know.

and here's ANOTHER THING. If LT isn't guilty, how come he got on AIM just to try and "taunt" me? That's totally behaivor someone totally innocent would do.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 08:49 AM   #14
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The interesting thing is that now I read it for the third time there's not actually anything incriminating in there... I'd go so far as to say it was a bonehead move on your part to allow a young teenage girl to develop an emotional attachment to you, but there's no evidence or even suggestion that you took advantage of that, except in those statements made by AC after the fact, which... I dunno, why exactly would I have trouble believing those? You tell me.
There's no reason to believe them, it's that simple. Alice Catherine herself had PM'd me recently to give me a full-blown declaration of war, with both Prons and Rain by her side. Rain's recent blog post makes perfect sense given that context.

@Desslock: So it is apparent after all.... given the latest post I made was on my own birthday thread, no less. But I'm not really one to give a damn about others' opinions regarding myself; as I've said, there will be people who won't accept me for who I am, whether or not the Starmorpher card is played. I've grown to accept whatever's thrown at me over the years. I'm simply mad at how I'm already wrongfully in the banhammer's crossfire and you're only adding fuel to the fire. I never thought I'd say this to you, Desslock, and I don't mean any real offense, but for trying to get me unnecessarily banned, you've just lost my full respect.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 08:50 AM   #15
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All I know is this.

I've known Alice for a long time and she's actually pretty okay. Sure she uses anyone who will listen as a documentary crew and tells them every aspect of her life, but it's not like she's a bad person or anything.
Agreed. She's not a bad person. By the time she left, I felt quite amicable towards her, to be honest. She's not my best friend evar, but ya know I do try to not befriend underage girls too often.

Quote:
In all the time I've known her, she never really made anything up or exagerated anything. She usually tells me everything that happens ever. Sure, she could have made it up. But I really doubt it.
Don't be silly. If she did make something up, you'd never know. Your only source of information about her life is what she tells you.

Quote:
Alice has never been the type of person to be capable of hatching complex revenge plots, remember her "returns" to AnimeNation? If she couldn't do something simple like that, how could she have faked an elaborate cyber sex story?
Nothing complex about it, dude. You pretty much just get mad with someone and say things that didn't happen.

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I call bull on that. I've told you several times that if you would just stop reminding people, nobody would remember.

Sorry I missed the other half dozen examples in the search, as well as the several dozens of entries in the Archive, but I've hit my threshhold. Don't bother playing the "gosh, I hardly mention it" card on this one.
How many of those were in response to other people bringing this up? The real truth is somewhere in between what you're suggesting and what Kuro is saying. I won't pretend he's been the perfect forum member, but just who exactly are all these antics causing a problem for? I don't care, does anyone else really care... other than Prons and Mel?

Last edited by Soluzar; March 25th, 2008 at 08:55 AM.
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